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September 15, 2005 08:00 AM UTC

Thursday Open Thread

  • 53 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

Like sands in the hourglass…

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53 thoughts on “Thursday Open Thread”

  1. Let’s make a quick deal on this thread today.  No Cut and paste of long useless articles.  If you have a link provide it, if not summarize and post your opinion, thoughts etc.

    This site is useless if it is hijacked by people that want to paste the Daily Paper into it.

  2. I have never met Katy Atkinson but she is continuing to make bizarre statements that only help Holtzman and all C&D foes.  Her comments in this morning’s Post were unnecessary and harmful to her cause.

  3. Thoma Sowell has a good article on the governemnt response to the hurricane vs. the private sector response:

    ttp://www.townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/ts20050915.shtml

  4. I guess higher education is just another one of those pork barrel projects.  Oh Marc wants to discuss issues now…with pigs in the background.  Please Marc, the argument is down in the mud because that is where you want it to be.  Its obvious that the anti-Colorado Economic Recovery Act crowd can’t discuss Ref. C & D without lame props.

  5. “As a childless, 50-something, never-before-married bachelor, we can understand why Marc Holtzman cares nothing about our schools and our kids,” – Katy Atkinson

    Sounds like she is desperate. The response from the short guy’s camp was measured and professional.

  6. “This is coming from a 10-cent flack from Virginia,” Atkinson replied. “At least I’m a homegrown flack, you know? And I’m a homegrown flack that Holtzman asked to support him.”
    -Katy Atkinson

    How did Katy get knocked of message?  C asks for the transfer of ownership from the taxpayer to the state. When did this become about her flackness?

    oh, woe is Katy.

  7. I think both public relations persons failed their clients. I have taught at the University level for more than a decade and neither campaign has shown through their public representatives the ability to keep their message coherent and at a level the general public does not dismiss as childish. I am a very strong backer of C & D and hope that we do not resort to the Caldera stlye of irrelivant childish oneliners that the voters tune out.

  8. I am strongly against referendum C as I do not like the shotgun approach by the state legislature to fix the finanical issues that we are facing.  Additionally, since there is no cap on the amount of money, I have a hard time believing that we won’t experience a spending spree in the legislature this year.  Unfortunately, when the decisions are made to fund new programs, and the well dries up, we will be hearing about cuts again.  Cuts on programs that probably shouldn’t have been funded in the first place, but were since there was excess revenue.

    If the referendum were divided into specific measures targeting the funding, I would vote for most of the measures, however at this point I do not have confidence in the state legislature, and the various levels of government that the money will be spent wisely and specifically to the programs outlined.

    This appears to me to be a one-sided solution to the problem, which in the real world rarely work.

    Addressing funding issues by only increasing the  revenue limits and having no impacts on spending limits seems to be a cycle that will repeat itself.

    This is not a solution to the problem, but only a band-aid.  As a citizen and a taxpayer, I expect the state legislature to deliver solutions… this ain’t it.

    No on C!

  9. Katy seems perfectly on message.  Outside interests are trying to ruin Colorado to achieve their own selfish goals.  Some are running for office, some aren’t.  Makes sense to me.

  11. Poor Katy – she must feel totally lost among the Democrats. Unfortunatly for her, the Republicans will never take her back. Good thing she and Benson are back on good terms, no one else will have her.

  12. Get real strider.  A handfull of right wing freakos hate Katy.  The only ones who like her are Gov. Owens, Senator Allard, the R Congressional delegation, the business community, etc.  As a grandfather myself, I think she hit the nail on the head in saying that Holtzman’s attack on higher education and K-12 schools as “pork” reflects the views of a selfish rich man who thinks of nothing but his own greed.

  16. As to Keith’s claim that the Holtzman response was “professional,” let’s take the whole quote from today’s Denver Post, not the out of context one he quoted.

    Holtzman campaign manager Dick Leggitt accused Atkinson, a Republican political consultant, of debasing the policy debate.
    “We are not calling anybody names. We’re not calling Katy Atkinson names,”
    he said. “It’s a shame, that in an enlightened state like Colorado, people can’t disagree on important issues without being subjected to this kind of nasty vitriol.”
    That said, Holtzman was not available to speak for himself Wednesday because “he’s got more important things to do than to respond to some 10-cent flack for the other side,” Leggitt said.

    “This is coming from a 10-cent flack from Virginia,” Atkinson replied. “At least I’m a homegrown flack, you know? And I’m a homegrown flack that Holtzman asked to support him.”

    Gee, it’s nice that Holtzman’s hired gun from back east doesn’t call Katy Atkinson names…but a “ten-cent flack.”  That sums up his whole sorry campaign.

  17. Beauprez is in a fundraising frenzy; I just got a telemarketing call. “Can you give another $50? How about $30? No? $20? Can you give $20????

    Gimme a BREAK!!!!!

    Bob – if you have the entire Republican Party behind you, why on earth do you need to telemarket me EVERY THREE MONTHS!!!

    Rediculous.

  18. Katy is at the end of her rope. She proves it with her personal attacks against the anti-C&D crowd.

    Once again, another example that there is no real logic to the pro-C&D arguments… They claim the numbers are on their side, but they make the emotional plea their message whenever they can.

    I wasn’t sure about this Holtzman guy, but if he is willing to stake his Gubernatorial campaign on the C&D debate, he just might be worthy of taking on Beuprez. By taking on the current Governor on this issue, he may show that he can be the next.

    The logic of attacking the anti-C&D crowd as being a bunch of “out of state interests” is a dicey one in MHO. I mean we are still a growing State… How many actual “natives” (born here in Colorado) are able to vote, vs. the number that are still in Grade School. Bill Owens is a native of Texas for Christ’s sake!

    But then again, I guess I’m an out of state interest as well… I’ve only lived here since Jr. High School.

    VOTE NO ON C&D!

  19. As both a fourth generation Coloradan and one who has studied religion extensively, I must correct you, CoTaxPayer.  NO ONE is “a native of Texas, for Christ’s sake.”
    Wyoming is God’s country, Colorado is just a kind of limbo where Texans go when they’ve served their time in hell.
    Pax Vobiscum

  20. By the way… I thought Ligget’s comment about “10 cent flack” was describing the attack itself, not the attacker… as in “I don’t need your flack” a common term used by Coloradans everywhere when it would be inappropirate to say “I don’t need your shit”. (This site is like HBO, whereas the Post and Rocky are more like network TV).

    It’s our old friend Katy who called Ligget a “flack” there “True Republican”. Again, they have no good basis for their campaign, so Katy and Co just have to resort to name calling.

    VOTE NO ON C&D!

  23. You’re wrong, on both points, CoTax. Read it: “Holtzman) has got more important things to do than to respond to some 10-cent flack for the other side,” Leggitt said.
    Flack clearly means public relations person.  You don’t “respond” or in his case “not respond” to anti-aircraft fire.  I’ve taught public relations at three colleges and among professionals, like Liggit, it’s always a derisory term for a public relations specialist.  So Liggit called her a ten-cent flack, seconds after saying he wasn’t going to call her names, and the point is not debateable.  She responded by saying that at least she was a ten-cent flack from Colorado.  Actually, anybody who’s tried to hire her, knows she’s in a much higher price range than that.

  25. It’s always about the players.  It’s about who you trust.  Who you believe is doing it for the right reasons. 

    That’s why people will vote for C&D rather than against it.  A large bipartsian group is simply more believable than a small,but loud, special interest.

  26. It’s always about the players.  It’s about who you trust.  Who you believe is doing it for the right reasons. 

    That’s why people will vote for C&D rather than against it.  A large bipartsian group is simply more believable than a small,but loud, special interest.

  27. Is Katy her real name or are you guys making it up? It seems to fit though.

    So who is this “50-something 10-cent flack from Virginia,” Atkinson is talking about? If she is going to lower herself to name calling she should at least get the facts straight.

  28. You’ve got so many factual points wrong I wouldn’t know where to begin, Live/Die.  The 50-fifhy somesothing guy with no kids and no concern for education of the next generation is Holtzman.  Liggit is the guy who called Katy a ten cent flack, a holtzman hireling. Why don’t you go back and read the Denver Post story so you at least know who you are insulting and for what.

  30. Okay fine, so “flack” is now a cuss word. So says our noble poster from academia. Someone call the government so it doesn’t slip out on network TV.

    But back to the issue at hand, I think Keith is on to something here… Who cares what names Katy hurls around? The fact that this was her response to Holtzman coming out though is pretty big.

    So Holtzman came out… I heard that Beauprez wants to as well; both to avoid being upstaged by his opponent for the GOP nomination and also to stake out his ground in the debate as well. Now the good Congressman is not exactly a newcomer to the State… 

    How far will Katy/Owens/Benson and crew will go to slander their own choice for the Governor’s Mansion if he makes a commercial condemning C&D?

  31. Is distorting the truth a habit you can’t break, Cotax.  I said, correctly, that “flack” is a derisory term for public relations specialist.  You then claimed I said it was a cuss word and somebody should call the government to be sure it didn’t slip out on network TV.  Apparently, you’d rather distort the truth than admit you made a mistake. A small distortion perhaps but a telling one, reminding me of Ronald Reagan’s observation:
    “A man who tell you he likes cold showers will lie to you about other things as well.

  34. “True Republican”, your powers to copy and paste, other people’s words then quote Uncle Ron are truly awesome sir. I commend you. We’ll give you a cookie later.

    Do you care to lend to the debate about how Ref C&D are doomed to failure because their supporters have great bi-partisan support, they have raised a ton of cash, but when a not very well known public figure comes out to condemn it, their best response is name calling and harsh language?

    Because if the Pro-C&D crowd were really in the catbird seat, it strikes me that they would blow Holtzman off. Instead their reaction shows he hit a nerve for the average folks who will be mailing in those votes this fall.

    Just a humble opinion offered by a guy carrying a mere BA from a Colorado university.

    VOTE NO ON C&D!

  35. Keith… See it’s almost enough to keep you up at night.

    I for one have not bought all the “division in the GOP” crap… The only folks who see a division in the GOP are the Katy/Benson/Owens crowd, and that’s just because those of us in the trenches haven’t been following like good little lemmings. The rest of us a still happy little Republicans who talk among ourselve out of the GOV’s earshot and know how we’re going to vote.

    The way Katy took after Holtzman though… I wonder if the GOP contigent in the Pro-C&D crowd would go to a scorched Earth plan if Beauprez jumped in?

    Or if she is just being a good little sister of the Benson/Owens fraternity by tearing into him the way she did?

    VOTE NO ON C&D!

  37. Not So True Republican,

    I took your advice and read the Denver Post story again.

    “This is coming from a 10-cent flack from Virginia,” Atkinson replied.-Denver Post

    By the way, Holtzman is about 44 years old and from Pennsylvania.

    How do you like your crow cooked smarty pants?

  39. Take a reading comprehension course, Liver Diet.  Atkinson clearly refered to Holtzman as the 50 something never married no kids etc. anti-education dweeb.  She just got his age wrong.  It was liggit who then called Atkinson a ten-cent flack.  Liggit is from Virginia, which means he was the one Atkinson meant when she REPLIED that he was a ten-cent flack from Virginia.
    At least, get the players straight before you start offering your opinion.  As it stands, you just look dumb.

  43. Bob has back surgery?  I guess he isn’t in the “running?”  The timing of such an event may curtain his campaigning.  However, the debate is important, so lets wish him a fast recovery.

  45. Anyone in journalism or public relations knows that a “flack” is a PR person, a spokesperson, a media relations person who tries to sell and spin stories.

    KA obviously has her next job lined up with Bob Beauprez. She’s just starting the primary a little early, starting her new job while working on her current one. Will main stream Rs forgive her, forget her? Doesn’t matter to her so long as someone hires her to shoot people down.

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